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From: Sam Kuper <sampablokuper@posteo.net>
To: caml-list@inria.fr
Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Ask questions on the mailing lists too
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2022 14:30:05 +0000
Message-ID: <20220117143005.qso775afaro24bi4@posteo.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <714c3a8d-25c8-c91e-ae01-46bf00920ffd@baturin.org>

On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 04:33:49PM +0700, Daniil Baturin wrote:
> Discourse is NOT a service-as-a-software-substitute.

You are only partly correct, and not for the reason you gave below.

I probably should have been clearer, so let me clarify my earlier claim.


# FREE SOFTWARE

> It's free software distributed under GPLv2. See
> https://github.com/discourse/discourse

I was aware of the license before I made the statement about SaaSS.

SaaSS does not imply "proprietary":

    "SaaSS and proprietary software lead to similar harmful results, but
    the mechanisms are different.  With proprietary software, the
    mechanism is that you have and use a copy which is difficult and/or
    illegal to change.   With SaaSS, the mechanism is that you don't
    have the copy that's doing your computing. ...

    Many free software supporters assume that the problem of SaaSS will
    be solved by developing free software for servers.  ...  But if the
    programs on the server are free, that doesn't protect the server's
    users from the effects of SaaSS.  These programs liberate the server
    operator, but not the server's users."[1]

So, on that ground in isolation, I was not wrong to call hosted
Discourse instances SaaSS.

(If Discourse were licensed as AGPLv3 instead of GPLv2+, then I *might*
have been wrong to do so.  I haven't examined that point here, though.)



# SaaSS VS OTHER NETWORK SERVICES


SaaSS implies a failure to do "your own computing on data in your own
hands".[1]

Insofar as Discourse facilitates exchange of data between people,
therefore - e.g. to the extent that it replicates the functionality of
traditional mailing list manager (MLM) software - it is *not* SaaSS.

However, Discourse, like most forum software, doesn't just replace the
MLM.  It also replaces the MUA and the features for local
data-processing that the MUA provides: a UI for reading posts and
composing replies, search/browse functionality, etc.

Those (anti-)features, strictly speaking, constitute SaaSS.

That might not be bad if, like good MLMs, Discourse instances also
provided e.g. Mbox discussion archives for easy downloading and local
usage, so that users could easily avoid the SaaSS.  But unfortunately,
Discourse imposes accessibility and inconvenience barriers against
downloading that data for local usage.


Thank you for your patience and understanding,

Sam

[1]: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.en.html

  reply index

Thread overview: 37+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-01-14 18:57 [Caml-list] Type Error in OCaml Code mukesh tiwari
2022-01-15 21:19 ` Nicolás Ojeda Bär
2022-01-16  9:40   ` [Caml-list] Ask questions on the mailing lists too orbifx
2022-01-16 14:32     ` Sam Kuper
2022-01-17  9:20       ` Sébastien Hinderer
2022-01-17  9:34         ` Daniil Baturin
2022-01-17 14:30           ` Sam Kuper [this message]
2022-01-17 14:56             ` Daniil Baturin
2022-01-17 17:36               ` Sam Kuper
2022-01-17 21:08                 ` Gabriel Scherer
2022-01-18  1:51                   ` Sam Kuper
2022-01-19 15:46                     ` Sébastien Hinderer
2022-01-18  9:49                   ` orbifx
2022-01-18 15:55                     ` Simon Cruanes
2022-01-19 16:31                       ` Sébastien Hinderer
2022-01-19 17:55                         ` Sam Kuper
2022-01-19 18:09                           ` Sam Kuper
2022-01-19 19:09                             ` Sébastien Hinderer
2022-01-19 20:53                               ` Sam Kuper
2022-01-19 18:43                           ` Simon Cruanes
2022-01-19 19:03                           ` Sébastien Hinderer
2022-01-19 20:50                             ` Sam Kuper
2022-01-20 20:56                         ` Edwin Török
2022-03-11  8:46                           ` Sébastien Hinderer
2022-03-11  9:38                             ` Vasilis Goumas
2022-03-11  9:43                               ` Gabriel Scherer
2022-01-19 15:33                   ` Sébastien Hinderer
2022-01-19 21:43                     ` Gabriel Scherer
2022-01-19 22:02                       ` Sam Kuper
2022-01-19 22:38                         ` Sébastien Hinderer
     [not found]                 ` <50AF4FEF-5CD6-40E7-9FA3-78814CBEE230@etorok.eu>
2022-01-17 22:47                   ` Sam Kuper
2022-01-17  9:54         ` Alan Schmitt
2022-01-17 13:53           ` Sam Kuper
2022-01-19 15:18             ` Sébastien Hinderer
2022-01-19 15:54           ` Sébastien Hinderer
2022-01-20  9:13             ` Alan Schmitt
     [not found]             ` <87pmom7sz7.fsf@m4x.org>
2022-01-20 14:16               ` Sébastien Hinderer

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