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From: Oliver Bandel <oliver@first.in-berlin.de>
To: Simon Cruanes <simon.cruanes.2007@m4x.org>
Cc: caml-list@inria.fr
Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Build-/Installation-Tools - not enogh of them?
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 16:49:29 +0100
Message-ID: <20181127154929.h2sdvjhwzyyfwior@first.in-berlin.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20181127150629.GC1374@carty>

Quoting  Simon Cruanes <simon.cruanes.2007@m4x.org> (snt: 2018-11-27 16:06 +0100 CET) (rcv: 2018-11-27 16:06 +0100 CET):
> Le Tue, 27 Nov 2018, Oliver Bandel wrote:
> > OK, so after you know OCaml,
> > then you have to learn opam,
> > and after that, dune is just another tool that people have to know.
> 
> Well you need to build your software. My packages tend to have a super
> simple makefile around dune, because I'm used to type `make`

That's the one thing I asked for in the thread-starting email.

So, then you are not meant to be addressed.


> but
> claiming one can write modern OCaml without learning a bit how to build
> it is naive at best.

Don't know why you are so aggressive here.

It's the problem, that the number of tools evolving around OCaml
is growing and growing, and some developers, who already are used in one of them use
them without writing the nice Makefile as a wrapper.

So, if you want to write packages for the OS's, and if you know one of the tools,
it's not enough. You have to know them all, just to create the package.
That's an extra effort for the one who wants to package, just because the
developer who already knows it's tool of choice is not willing to wrap the
stuff into a Makefile.

The minimal effort on the one single side is avoided, and that creates a lot of trouble in several other places.



> It's like *any* other language, you got to learn a
> bit of tooling (even python — good luck with pip or conda — or javascript
> with its pile of tools that change all the time. Oh and what about
> cmake?)
> 
> > But if you just want to use OCaml for your programming,
> > why additionally need to learn opam and now dune?
> 
> Because `ocamlopt foo.ml -o foo` won't scale.


I'm happy with OCamlMakefile.
So I don't need to `ocamlopt foo.ml -o foo` by hand.

Maybe it's better to abstain from native OS-packages of a lot of OCaml-software,
just because it's the "not-naive way" to insist, that people who
would like to package software of others have to have the need for learning
a lot of tools they would not use otherwise, instead of asking those who know the tools already,
to write a Makefile (which they also already know how to do that).

It's the way, how to produce work for others. (Some kind of sadistic attitude, it seems (thougthless at best).)


Ciao,
  Oliver

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  reply index

Thread overview: 70+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-11-26 10:15 Oliver Bandel
2018-11-26 16:41 ` Yawar Amin
2018-11-26 16:58   ` Julia Lawall
2018-11-26 17:16     ` Yawar Amin
2018-11-26 20:33       ` Julia Lawall
2018-11-26 20:48         ` Yawar Amin
2018-11-26 20:54           ` Julia Lawall
2018-11-26 21:19             ` Yawar Amin
2018-11-26 21:29               ` Julia Lawall
2018-11-26 22:16                 ` SP
2018-11-27  5:24                   ` Malcolm Matalka
2018-11-28  0:21                     ` SP
2018-11-27  6:11                   ` Julia Lawall
2018-11-27  8:46                     ` SF Markus Elfring
2018-11-28  0:04                     ` SP
2018-11-27  9:27                 ` SF Markus Elfring
2018-11-27 10:08                   ` Julia Lawall
2018-11-27 10:28                     ` [Caml-list] Build-/Installation-Tools - not enough " SF Markus Elfring
2018-11-27 10:34                       ` Julia Lawall
2018-11-27 11:05                         ` Jean-Francois Monin
2018-11-27 11:11                           ` Kakadu
2018-11-27 13:19                             ` Malcolm Matalka
2018-11-28  1:53                               ` Francois Berenger
2018-11-28 15:37                             ` Ian Zimmerman
2018-11-27 13:07                     ` [Caml-list] Build-/Installation-Tools - not enogh " Jean-Marc Alliot
2018-12-06 12:21               ` Richard W.M. Jones
2018-12-06 16:11                 ` Yawar Amin
2018-12-06 20:18                   ` Richard W.M. Jones
2018-12-07  7:31                     ` Daniel Bünzli
2018-12-07  7:45                       ` [Caml-list] What happened to the 'ancient' library for OCaml? Francois Berenger
2018-12-07  8:24                         ` Richard W.M. Jones
2018-12-07  8:27                       ` [Caml-list] Build-/Installation-Tools - not enogh of them? Richard W.M. Jones
2018-12-07  9:01                         ` Daniel Bünzli
2018-12-07 13:22                       ` Stéphane Glondu
2018-12-08  0:58                         ` Daniel Bünzli
2018-12-13 23:45                           ` SP
2018-12-11  2:47                         ` Francois Berenger
2018-12-07 13:12                     ` Malcolm Matalka
2018-11-27 14:33             ` Anil Madhavapeddy
2018-11-27 14:36     ` Gerd Stolpmann
2018-11-30 16:01   ` Louis Gesbert
2018-11-26 22:44 ` Jaap Boender
2018-11-26 22:54   ` Simon Cruanes
2018-11-27 13:29     ` Oliver Bandel
2018-11-27 13:45       ` [Caml-list] Build-/Installation tools - not enough " SF Markus Elfring
2018-11-27 15:06       ` [Caml-list] Build-/Installation-Tools - not enogh " Simon Cruanes
2018-11-27 15:49         ` Oliver Bandel [this message]
2018-11-27 16:27           ` Daniel Bünzli
2018-11-27 17:46             ` Jaap Boender
2018-11-28 11:48               ` Jeremie Dimino
2018-12-01 15:12                 ` [Caml-list] How to start with the curren toolset? Hendrik Boom
2018-12-01 17:07                   ` Ian Zimmerman
2018-12-02 15:27                   ` Daniel Bünzli
2018-12-02 23:36                     ` David Allsopp
2018-12-03  2:19                     ` [Caml-list] let's give a try at opam-bundle Francois Berenger
2018-12-02 17:44                   ` [Caml-list] confusing message in opam installer Hendrik Boom
2018-12-02 17:50                     ` Julia Lawall
2018-12-05 19:09                       ` Raja Boujbel - OCamlPro
2018-11-27 16:27           ` [Caml-list] Build-/Installation tools - not enough of them? SF Markus Elfring
2018-11-27 17:11           ` [Caml-list] Build-/Installation-Tools - not enogh " Markus Mottl
2018-11-30 12:41             ` [Caml-list] <DKIM> " Vu Ngoc San
2018-12-07 15:19             ` [Caml-list] " oliver
2018-11-27 16:52       ` Hendrik Boom
2018-11-27 14:11     ` Jaap Boender
2018-11-27  2:33   ` Francois Berenger
2018-11-27 13:31     ` Oliver Bandel
2018-11-27 13:40 ` John F Carr
2018-11-30 16:33   ` Louis Gesbert
2018-12-01  5:01     ` Louis Roché
2018-12-03  0:16     ` Edwin Török

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