caml-list - the Caml user's mailing list
 help / Atom feed
From: Oliver Bandel <oliver@first.in-berlin.de>
To: caml-list@inria.fr
Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Build-/Installation-Tools - not enogh of them?
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 14:29:15 +0100
Message-ID: <20181127132914.ifjkrrsg677zcy6r@first.in-berlin.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20181126225522.GY3935@church>

Quoting  Simon Cruanes <simon.cruanes.2007@m4x.org> (snt: 2018-11-26 23:55 +0100 CET) (rcv: 2018-11-26 23:54 +0100 CET):
> Le Mon, 26 Nov 2018, Jaap Boender wrote:
[...]
> > It's all well and good to say that 'using opam is the default', but can we
> > please spare a thought for distribution editors as well? Using ocaml and
> > friends with the package manager that comes with your distribution is a
> > reasonable use case, I'd think.
> 
> The ecosystem has indeed been changing rapidly this year, but in a good
> way, imho: a lot of people and projects have converged to using `dune`
> as the build system, and opam2 as the package manager
[...]

OK, so after you know OCaml,
then you have to learn opam,
and after that, dune is just another tool that people have to know.

If developers want to use all that, because it's so much of a way to save time in
development, building and packaging - if you know all three - fine.

But if you just want to use OCaml for your programming,
why additionally need to learn opam and now dune?

Those dvelopers who want to enrich the makedependency-hell, can do it of course.
But please add a Makefile, that allows people who don't know or don't even want to know
opam, dune and so many other tools,
so that "make" and "make install" does work properly, even you never heard of all the
new tools.

To create such Makefiles should be easy for people who know the used build-/installer-tools.
But it's hard to learn any new build-/installation-tool in 5 minutes,
just to get a small package (or a bunch of them) installed, to go on with the own work.

Also documentation should mention, which tools are used and which packages are needed to build
the stuff, you just want to (compile/install) and use.

So: if "make" and "make install" just starts the toolchain to build and install,
which means a be boring stupid Makefile for those who know the toolchain,
this would be of great help for those, not interested in learing the whole
toolchain (or not having the time to do so).

Also nice would be, if opam could export the config of a package to e.g. json or even csv.
Last time I asked, it was not possible and I started reverse engineering the fileformat (and gave up after a while).
Maybe today thats possible, so that it's easy to write a tool that would convert
opam-package-files to system-installer-files.


Ciao,
  Oliver

-- 
Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list https://inbox.ocaml.org/caml-list
Forum: https://discuss.ocaml.org/
Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs

  reply index

Thread overview: 70+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-11-26 10:15 Oliver Bandel
2018-11-26 16:41 ` Yawar Amin
2018-11-26 16:58   ` Julia Lawall
2018-11-26 17:16     ` Yawar Amin
2018-11-26 20:33       ` Julia Lawall
2018-11-26 20:48         ` Yawar Amin
2018-11-26 20:54           ` Julia Lawall
2018-11-26 21:19             ` Yawar Amin
2018-11-26 21:29               ` Julia Lawall
2018-11-26 22:16                 ` SP
2018-11-27  5:24                   ` Malcolm Matalka
2018-11-28  0:21                     ` SP
2018-11-27  6:11                   ` Julia Lawall
2018-11-27  8:46                     ` SF Markus Elfring
2018-11-28  0:04                     ` SP
2018-11-27  9:27                 ` SF Markus Elfring
2018-11-27 10:08                   ` Julia Lawall
2018-11-27 10:28                     ` [Caml-list] Build-/Installation-Tools - not enough " SF Markus Elfring
2018-11-27 10:34                       ` Julia Lawall
2018-11-27 11:05                         ` Jean-Francois Monin
2018-11-27 11:11                           ` Kakadu
2018-11-27 13:19                             ` Malcolm Matalka
2018-11-28  1:53                               ` Francois Berenger
2018-11-28 15:37                             ` Ian Zimmerman
2018-11-27 13:07                     ` [Caml-list] Build-/Installation-Tools - not enogh " Jean-Marc Alliot
2018-12-06 12:21               ` Richard W.M. Jones
2018-12-06 16:11                 ` Yawar Amin
2018-12-06 20:18                   ` Richard W.M. Jones
2018-12-07  7:31                     ` Daniel Bünzli
2018-12-07  7:45                       ` [Caml-list] What happened to the 'ancient' library for OCaml? Francois Berenger
2018-12-07  8:24                         ` Richard W.M. Jones
2018-12-07  8:27                       ` [Caml-list] Build-/Installation-Tools - not enogh of them? Richard W.M. Jones
2018-12-07  9:01                         ` Daniel Bünzli
2018-12-07 13:22                       ` Stéphane Glondu
2018-12-08  0:58                         ` Daniel Bünzli
2018-12-13 23:45                           ` SP
2018-12-11  2:47                         ` Francois Berenger
2018-12-07 13:12                     ` Malcolm Matalka
2018-11-27 14:33             ` Anil Madhavapeddy
2018-11-27 14:36     ` Gerd Stolpmann
2018-11-30 16:01   ` Louis Gesbert
2018-11-26 22:44 ` Jaap Boender
2018-11-26 22:54   ` Simon Cruanes
2018-11-27 13:29     ` Oliver Bandel [this message]
2018-11-27 13:45       ` [Caml-list] Build-/Installation tools - not enough " SF Markus Elfring
2018-11-27 15:06       ` [Caml-list] Build-/Installation-Tools - not enogh " Simon Cruanes
2018-11-27 15:49         ` Oliver Bandel
2018-11-27 16:27           ` Daniel Bünzli
2018-11-27 17:46             ` Jaap Boender
2018-11-28 11:48               ` Jeremie Dimino
2018-12-01 15:12                 ` [Caml-list] How to start with the curren toolset? Hendrik Boom
2018-12-01 17:07                   ` Ian Zimmerman
2018-12-02 15:27                   ` Daniel Bünzli
2018-12-02 23:36                     ` David Allsopp
2018-12-03  2:19                     ` [Caml-list] let's give a try at opam-bundle Francois Berenger
2018-12-02 17:44                   ` [Caml-list] confusing message in opam installer Hendrik Boom
2018-12-02 17:50                     ` Julia Lawall
2018-12-05 19:09                       ` Raja Boujbel - OCamlPro
2018-11-27 16:27           ` [Caml-list] Build-/Installation tools - not enough of them? SF Markus Elfring
2018-11-27 17:11           ` [Caml-list] Build-/Installation-Tools - not enogh " Markus Mottl
2018-11-30 12:41             ` [Caml-list] <DKIM> " Vu Ngoc San
2018-12-07 15:19             ` [Caml-list] " oliver
2018-11-27 16:52       ` Hendrik Boom
2018-11-27 14:11     ` Jaap Boender
2018-11-27  2:33   ` Francois Berenger
2018-11-27 13:31     ` Oliver Bandel
2018-11-27 13:40 ` John F Carr
2018-11-30 16:33   ` Louis Gesbert
2018-12-01  5:01     ` Louis Roché
2018-12-03  0:16     ` Edwin Török

Reply instructions:

You may reply publically to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=20181127132914.ifjkrrsg677zcy6r@first.in-berlin.de \
    --to=oliver@first.in-berlin.de \
    --cc=caml-list@inria.fr \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link

caml-list - the Caml user's mailing list

Archives are clonable: git clone --mirror https://inbox.ocaml.org/caml-list

AGPL code for this site: git clone https://public-inbox.org/ public-inbox